Uganda: Transcript of radio show about alleged stonings

This is a transcript prepared by Colin Stewart of a recording that Friends New Underground Railroad (FNUR) released Aug. 28, 2014, as evidence supporting its report that seven people were stoned in rural Uganda in early August, including the six discussed in this broadcast.

Warning to readers: This transcript includes a distasteful discussion of whether LGBT people should be arrested and put on trial or should simply be killed.

In the transcript, the reported victims’ names are spelled as in a list provided by FNUR or otherwise as specified.

Time markers in the 12 minutes 45 second recording are indicated in brackets, as are editor’s comments.

The discussion is conducted mostly in English, with frequent comments in what is apparently the local Lusoga language.  This transcript includes only the English portion.

See the blog post Ugandan murder mystery: New evidence, still no clarity”  for a discussion of the veracity of this audio file.

(Music and introduction, not in English)

[00:49]

Host — There has just been a commercial break.

Shortly before we entered the commercial break we’ve actually been tackling these issues.

[00:53]

But then there’s another burning issue. Mr. Vasileva [spelling unknown], we are so privileged to have you today in the studios.

Vasileva — I thank you.

Host — You know, you’re coming from Kamuli.

Vasileva — Ya.

Host — This is … Kamuli is the mother to Buyende.

Vasileva — Ya.  It was carved out of Kamuli. Then they created the Buyende district.  These are two years now.

Host — Now you know what happened in Buyende.

Vasileva– Ya. I’ve heard. About the homosexuals.

Host — Particularly, according to the confirmed reports we’ve heard. [Short discussion, not in English.]  We had an incident in the market.

Vasileva — [A few more words, not in English] There is a market. The fateful day was 4 August 2014, this very year. These guys, they were in the market. There was a group of Christians. [A word, not in English?]  They had a pastor from Kampala. They acted and I would call it mob justice.

[2:00]

Host — Yes. To me, I think.

Vasileva — I wanted to give you the picture of what happened on this day.

Host — (laugh)

Vasileva —  What was here — that they surrounded around the six people they suspected that were homosexuals. They were younger men, around six. You’ve heard of that?

Host — I heard it.

Vasileva — Some lesbians. They fled.

Host —  Apparently I got a confirmed report about the killing of the six homosexuals. But it’s good you are here with me tonight. I was already listening to the news. I heard of, apparently, when I contacted my editor at this radio, he gave me a report of the people. I heard of Isaaca Marunda [“Isaac Marunda” on the FNUR list], Michael …

Vasileva — That one was killed instantly. He was stoned.

Host — Michael Ngombya.

Vasileva — He was stoned. He was stoned.

Host — There was this lady … the lady … I heard of ..

Vasileva — She was Kawaalah. For her she tried to run, they grabbed her, they stoned her. She died also on the spot.

[3:00]

Host — But, so sorry. I’m not in for the gay.  I’m Ugandan.  I’m an African. I’m a culturalist, I should say. I’m not in for the gay.

But then, when we look at the, the international community, we have some cities where this thing of the gay, it has been accepted with such a level.

Vasileva — Uh-uh.

Host — What do you think, as an opinion leader,  because …

Vasileva —  As an opinion leader …  As an opinion leader, I won’t even sound for this one for our community.

Host — [Comment not in English]

Vasileva — No. First wait. In the local language, I have to be specific.  [A sentence or two, not in English] We are not ready to accept those characters of homosexuals. Fine. Let them be in their world, if possible. We are even suggesting that, in Uganda, let’s identify them. We build, let’s say, we can even take them to an island.  We isolated them. We excommunicate them.

Host — That is now segregation.

Vasileva — Not segregation.

Host — That is against [?] your human rights.

[4:00]
Vasileva — OK. You can have your human rights.

Host — [Comment not in English]

Vasileva — You don’t joke with homos.

Host — Wait, wait.

Vasileva — These guys have to go.

Host — [Comment not in English]

Vasileva — This culture is not Africa.

Host — [Comments not in English] I’m not in for them. But taking away someone’s life. You know, life is not something to [be thrown away?]

Vasileva — And by the way.  [Comment not in English] It was terrible.  One of these guys, he was dark-colored.  He had money to run away, but after he was stoned and people thought he had died. But they set fire to him. He was burnt to ashes.

Host — [Comment not in English] Don’t joke.

Vasileva — First, before we go to the calls, as you propose, now this is the message I’m sending out to our community people. People should understand that being a homosexual is criminal and is punishable by death in our city.

[5:00]

Host — But government has come out to…. Previously, government has put in this thing [words not in English?] put in place that we shouldn’t prohibit these people, that they should be allowed, but then there are those who say no. …

Vasileva — The bad thing. … You’re light on these guys.  We need to be tough.

Host — I might be sounding light in your ears, but then we should look at the other aspect of life, whereby someone, ah, someone may have his or [her] own feelings. You know?

Vasileva — OK. For example …

Host — For example in our community, we have a law against thieves.  You are very aware of this. When you get a thief, these people are taken to court, convicted, and then put in prison.

Vasileva — Uh-huh. [Comment not in English]

Host — Wait.

Vasileva — [Comment not in English]

Host — [Comment not in English]

Vasileva —  [Comment not in English] has to die.  That is a homo.  I’m telling you. Imagine if your son … The bad thing is these guys are recruiting even younger boys.

[6:00]

Host — What if we could come up with a way, actually with a proper way of preaching to the people, telling them what they should actually … having a proper way other than killing those who [words not in English?].

Vasileva — My brother.  Good enough. … You already represent … You get all the information around in this place. These guys have the money. That is what they entice the younger boys into this bad act of being homos. Imagine if your son is being recruited as a homosexual. Would you be happy?

Host — Of course not.

Vasileva — So, if you’re not happy, then we are requesting that you join us. For us, we are sober. That we fight the homos. We know the possible means that they are not able even to cooperate [operate in any way. They will recruit. We shall fight them to the last man.

Host — OK. This is “Council.” You are listening to “The Council.”  [words not in English]  People have the mixed feelings, someone has this and that, about this issue that is actually burning in the country.  Tonight we are hosting one Vasileva from Kamuli. And we are taking a commercial break. Shortly we shall be back after this.

[7:20-9:10, advertising]

[At 9:10, the host begins to invite listeners to call.  This transcript does not include much from the call-in portion of the show, which mostly is not in English, often is disjointed, and is cut short in the FNUR audio file. However, that section of the show includes the following exchange.]

[9:40]
Vasileva — To be specific, in Itukira in the [name not recognized] district, the following people were killed: One of them was Isaaca Marunda [ “Isaac Marunda” on the FNUR list]; Michael Ngombya; Sanyu Kawaalah, this was a girl, she was a lesbian; then Amis Dhakaba [“Amir Dhakaba” on the FNUR list], who was stoned; Geoffrey Waibi [on the FNUR list, “Godfrey Waibi”], for him, Geoffrey Waibi, to be sincere, Geoffrey Waibi, this one, he was burned, you heard of that? Then [Kawere Antony, on the list from FNUR, is not mentioned, at least not clearly]

Host — [Non-English word] You’re an opinion leader. How could we speak of people being killed like this? What if I had some grudge, or I have issues with you, and we take it be homosexual issue and we start killing people like that.

Let me get this one on the line . …

[Also, at about 11:40]
Host — … In your community, what were you using to know that these were homos?

Vasileva —  You can look at how they act. How they dress. They pierce their ears.  Imagine a boy walking, holding ….

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